He's done it before and apparently he's done it again.
-e.
www.thegearpage.net/board...p?t=357552
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eric seffinga |
Again! |
Lead | |
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Why is it that everyone feels the need to swipe from Ron? Is it really that hard to do something different?
He's done it before and apparently he's done it again. -e. www.thegearpage.net/board...p?t=357552 |
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Leonc |
Re: Again! | ||
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I haven't played any recent Hubers but played several at the Amp Shop in Sherman Oaks about 2 or 3 summers ago. There was nothing wrong with them...but there was nothing particularly right either. Not one single thing was what I would consider innovative or unique. Singularly unimpressive and they were going for over 3500 ea. Feh.
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Big Mike Blues |
Re: Again! | ||
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Fret ends?
______________________
18-140-149*-Jr90-Koi90 www.phatdaddyguitarworks.com <- Now Open |
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eric seffinga |
Re: Again! | ||
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Look at the inlays. See anything familiar? I'm sure Leon does.....
-e. |
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graydane |
Re: Again! | ||
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Because so many have no imagination, until they come here and lurk. Yes you lurkers enjoy seeing what is new, then in a few years you can put it out and convicne yourself it's something new.
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jimmybcool |
Re: Again! | ||
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Hey, it is easier to copy than innovate
I wonder how long before all the one off inlays are mass produced in Korea. Maybe I should drive north and check out Jhorn |
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guitarguy510 |
Re: Again! | ||
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Man that is pretty lame. I can't afford another guitar in that price range for a while, but that guy will NEVER get my business.
-Matt-
------------------ Thorn Artisan Deluxe # 153 Thorn Junior-Ninety # 09 |
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paulpuck |
Re: Again! | ||
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My guess is that Nik Huber has never seen Leon's guitar. Since his single cut guitars are called Orca's it makes sense he might put Orca inlays on one. It would seem pretty unlikely that he would name a line of his guitars Orca just so he could steal Ron's idea for cool inlays. His original line of guitars are called Dolphins which used to feature dolphin inlays as an upgrade much like PRS offered "Bird" inlays. However the lawyers for Robin guitars made him stop importing that fretboard inlay when they claimed it was representative of their guitars. I thought that was crazy since I couldn't ever remember seeing a Robin guitar with a dolphin inlay.
Imitation is the sincerist form of flattery or laziness depending on who you ask. The good thing is that no matter what anyone else tries and/or steals there is no way to duplicate good old Yeti know how. Mixed with some of Pop's mojo and the competitors never stood a chance. |
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Chapman1 |
Re: Again! | ||
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I agree, I don't think there's anything stolen in this scenario. I have no need to downplay Hubers either, it seems like a very nicely executed product.
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Ron Thorn |
Re: Again! | ||
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Nik called me, from Europe, about 4 years ago asking if I would mind if he put orcas on his guitars because of the inlays on Leon's Orca #012. I thought that was courteous of him. My response was, I couldn't legally stop him so it's his choice. He said he would instead stick with an orca on the headstock only, which I had no issues with at all.
It seems he made his choice. Nice looking guitar. |
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Ian Hurtt |
Re: Again! | ||
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Interesting turn of events.....
- John
Thorn 091 Jr.90 Hot Rod and Jr. 90 Koa - in the que! |
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Big Mike Blues |
Re: Again! | ||
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Well. that's an interesting twist....
______________________
18-140-149*-Jr90-Koi90 www.phatdaddyguitarworks.com <- Now Open |
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Leonc |
Re: Again! | ||
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Credit where credit it is due: the Orcas were all Ron's idea. It just fit with the nautical theme of #12. I had original suggested Hawaiian flora/fauna, IIRC.
As for this guitar...it might be a very nice guitar. I don't know. But crikes, I gotta say that at this point, I'm pretty jaded when I see guitars shaped like Les Pauls, with two humbuckers, two vol and two tone and real flamey or massively quilted tops. It just strikes me (and this is just my personal reaction) as totally effing boring. Where's the sleepy-yawning icon? |
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noodle947 |
ahh | ||
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AND THE PLOT THICKENS!
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eric seffinga |
Re: ahh | ||
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Let me just come back behind and say that I personally don't believe that in order to heap praise on my guitar of choice that it is necessary or even cool to tearing down another builder's work to do so. I don't buy into the whole "Brand X sucks, buy Brand Y" mentality. I own guitars by a variety of builders/manufacturers and always will. Variety is the spice of life.
The only reason I posted this topic in the first place was as an illustration to the recent thread started by someone fishing for unique Thorn features to use on another instrument. I responded then about what happens when other builders decide to surf this and the Thorn Gallery sites. The OP scoffed as if it was delusional paranoia before he bolted. With every other industry, and artistic endeavors especially, guitar builders have been <ahem> borrowing from each other since the very very beginning. To me this can be fantastic because it keeps ideas that people have adopted and grown accustomed to fresh, interesting and improved upon. As a guitar builder you can take a mechanical idea and tweak it. Refine the shapes, tweak the contours, give it better balance, improve the tone, whatever. One thing I don't really dig on is the wholesale swiping of visual details that are distinctive to a unique instrument or brand of instruments. This doesn't add anything to your guitars other than to show your imagination is limited only to the creativity of others if someone happens to be around to call you on it. Take it and twist it. Make it better. Own it. To me there is a difference between riffing off of an idea, and just nabbing it wholesale. In the case of the builder in question, lets just say over the last 6 years there's been more than one (or two or even three) ideas borrowed before this latest one. For a little while it seemed like each time I walked into that booth at NAMM I was guaranteed to spot another. I have nothing against NH personally by any means. I've met him at NAMM once or twice and the guitars that I've seen are very nicely put together and visually attractive. He definitely has some of his own very distinctive things going on with his guitars and personally I think he's got the talent to be better than this and it's a shame when this stuff happens. Anyway I just wanted to put a little light back on the previous topic and in this case unfortunately it's NH that caught my notice. My reaction to that recent thread and that of some others was not unwarranted and thus the posting of this one. The boutique guitar market may be world-wide, but it's still a small world and it does not go unnoticed by those of us that actually get around to other boards and see where these ideas end up, and by whom they attract. I don't want the thread to turn into a builder vs. builder pissing match because that's not what it's here for. It is another observation and nothing more. -e. |
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Rusmurf |
Re: ahh | ||
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Nik's Dolphins look exactly like Robins Dolphins, and Robin has had them in guitars for 2 decades.
So Robin had every right to do what they did IMO, it was pretty blatant. Ron isn't copying anyone else's inlays, so why do it to him. It's not that hard to come up with your own designs. He could have done is own unique versions of these MAMMALS also. |
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Big Mike Blues |
Re: ahh | ||
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*cough* Mammal. *cough*
______________________
18-140-149*-Jr90-Koi90 www.phatdaddyguitarworks.com <- Now Open |
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mikef1331 |
Re: ahh | ||
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I think there are a lot of luthiers out there that need to spend more time on coming up w/ their own ideas rather than trying to copy what other luthiers have already accomplished.
--------------------
Thorn SFC #13 |
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Rusmurf |
Re: ahh | ||
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I got caught by the mammal nazi
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paulpuck |
Re: ahh | ||
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One thought came to mind after reading Ron's comments about Nik calling him. It's possible the guitar had already been completed if he called just a few weeks ago. Basically it is possible someone asked Nik if he could do Orca's even though he couldn't do dolphins and did it as a one off type thing much like Leon's is a one off versus Ron's firesuns. After completing it others may have asked if he could make it a regular feature so he sought Ron's approval.
Of course I have no way of knowing if that is the case or if Nik just said to himself since Ron isn't saying he has a legal claim to them like PRS's Birds and Robin's Dolphins then it's fair game. If something along the first scenario is the case then it's a whole different story than the second scenario. I find the whole inlay thing somewhat confusing. Obviously some things are considered unprotected apparently like dots, crowns, split blocks, etc but others aren't. I haven't read the thread on Ron's innovations since the first post was made so I don't know what ground was covered there but to some degree most guitar designs are pretty derivative. Off the top of my head I can't think of what other things Nik might have stolen from Ron but I do remember somebody came out with the inlaid top things after Ron. I would guess that most of Ron's innovations are from collaborating with his customers and trying to find ways to achieve their goals musically and visually. I'm afraid I'm not breaking any new ground on my builds but I still feel blessed to work with a guy like Ron who cares so much about his craft and his customers. It's that type of experience that make his guitars and the build process so special. I also think it is that bond between him and us that makes us so protective of him. Stealing from a guy who would give you the shirt of his back or the Dr Pepper in his hand if you asked is just wrong on so many levels. When we see something like that or see comments from somone seeming to attack out friend we might have a tendency to over react sometimes but as a father I can say its the same reaction when I think someone is taking advantage of my kids. I hope we don't over do it sometimes. The TGP board has had some problems with the pro D'Pergo crowd versus the anti D'Pergo crowd. I think the pro D'Pergo crowd jumps to defend Stefan and his guitars so fast that people begin to question their motives. I think indirectly and unitentionally they may actually be encouraging the behavior by trying to protect their friend. I hope we as a group don't come across to "outsiers" the same way and if we do I hope Ron feels comfortable telling us to back off a bit. Damn this soap box is getting a bit high. I'd better step off before Ron body checks my guitars to the end of the line. |
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THORNOPHILE |
ahhhhhhhhhhhh hah! | ||
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Ron, just tell us who you want "Greased" and we'll take care of it.
edit: Tell us in private. |
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